bees.

[island1]

I am in Tassie, and I have seen one native beehive... the bees are different to the usual honey bees I have seen. Does anyone know if the european big fat bumble bee is edible? Need to find some use for these wretched things..... there seem to be less native bees and more bumble bees and European wasps.

[bobthebeeman]

Hello Jumped Angel
I am with you and I thank you for finding that information.
I have stingless native bees in Qld and have been pursuing a quest to find out just what Charles Darwin meant when he added a comment to the 4th Ed of "Origin of the Species" saying that 'the introduced hive bee was rapidly causing the extinction of the native stingless bee in Australia'. Now he visited only Sydney and Hobart in 1836, the honey be had just been introduced after a number of unsuccessful attempts and it exploded across the continent ahead of white settlers, very much like the bumble bee in Tasmania. That one I have called the 'cane toad of the south'.
Unfortunately he collected no actual insect specimens of this Genus that I have thus far been albe to find. Eva Crane in her book 'World History of Beekeeping and Honey Hunting' puts together this and colonial records to make the case that they did exist in the south.
If the did, they were living on the edge, probably survivors of a warmer period and in favoured locations. the arrival of an efficient foraging competitor could easily have changed all that.
Any proof now is going to be in colonial records, and in the legends of the aborigines and writing on this. The story by Bunce is one such case, I am hoping there will be more
My father came from Tasmania, so I have a special connection, so island1, how were those 'native bees' that you saw there different?
I close with the comment that I have just under 100 stingless bee colonies, I rescue/relocate/research them here in SEQ, I give talks at garden shows, schools etc, whoever will listen about these fascinating little bees that are [b]OURS
[/b]bobthebeeman

[JumpedAngel]

mmmmm

how I envy you Bob

[bobthebeeman]

Hello JumpedAngel
If I can convince the entomologists that the bees should be there, perhaps we can get to re-introducing them. Temperatures are just a matter of box design, location, and perhaps heating if one wants to go the whole hog.
I have ordered the book by Bunce, and I chase down every reference to such sighting from the time to confirm the accuracy, and to try to glean clues as to the bee involved.
It has become a crusade almost, but once i saw that comment by Darwin I decided that our current scientists were missing something.
It has been a lot of fun in any case, emailing a lot of different people.
Great to hear your reply so quick, if you have any more info on the subject, any references are grateflly received
bobthebeeman

[JumpedAngel]

The main reason that I hung back on that information was because I knew that both Eyre and Bunce were mostly Southern explorers but both took part in the search for Ludwig Leichhardt after the third failed expedition, I thought perhaps that either or both had made those observations whilst up there in the North.

Don’t get me wrong Bob, but I’d prefer not to try to introduce anything that doesn’t belong here, instead I’d like to try to find what may still be out there and find a way of encouraging it to recover and return.

The insect was caught on a Banksia tree, so perhaps it was a high flying specialist, it was a coastal trip so possibly a large coastal Banksia making the insect a localised specialist, the fact that neither Charles Darwin nor Joseph Banks managed to get one from around the Sydney region confirms the fact that these insects are not easily accessible.

Then there are the Aboriginals, few people know, even those who study them how dependant these people were on climbing trees and how effectively they practiced it. Early explorers and colonists around the Sydney region recorded how the only way that they could tell if there was an Aboriginal group around was by looking at the trees, they could judge how long it had been since an Aboriginal mob had been through the region by gauging the age of the toe-holds that had been cut into the trunks of trees, not only to seek sugar-bag honey but for their primary forest food, possum.

[bobthebeeman]

Hello JumpedAngel
I think we are on the same wavelength, but if they were once there, there is a case for re-introducing.
It is just a matter of proving one way or another. Darwin had the opportunity to get specimens but they were not his priority. He must have had a clear cut reason for saying what he did in Origin of the Species. Once track down that reason I will know more, it must be out there somewhere.
Dating is an issue, Bunce for example went from Tasmania to Victoria, and there was little opportunity for honey bees to have been in Victoria at the time quoted. Still that has to be checked so now I am trying to find any filed note of that trip if they exist. To convince me about stingless bees being there, I need to see a better description of what he actually wrote at the time, not for a book years later.
Would you believe there are honey beekeepers in Victoria who maintain they occasionally see them? I was told that by one earlier today, that set me back some. It certainly made me think, and I continue the quest
Thanks for the contact, and keep a look out down there now things are warming
Bob Luttrell

[island1]

I have been observing the bees on the native plants flowering at the moment and have been trying to identify them..... I am pretty sure it is the Homalictus bees that I hav been seeing. They are very small, and have a bronze abdomen. There are quite a lot of them about at the moment, on the egg and bacon plants...... have to check the botanical name.. I have been trying to get some good photos, but just seem to end up with the back end and a wing or two! Will try again today and might be able to identify them better. Heaps of bumble bees around... saw an article where they are considering introducing them to the mainland.....why? The wretched buzzards are annoying!

[bobthebeeman]

Hello island1
Good to hear from you, do keep up your efforts to get a photo of those bees. I didn't see any Homalictus bees in Tassie when I was there last, lots of reed bees, leafcutters, another couple I forget at the moment and of course many bumble bees.
The horticultural people over here wanted them and reckoned they would not escape from their glasshouses. Fortunately the application was knocked back and our native bees have a little more breathing space.
I like your term 'buzzards', my description at the time was 'cane toads of the south.' A few of my photos have been used in the anti bumblebee cause.
Bob

[island1]

That's great that some of your photos were used..... I was just reading today about how they wanted them on the mainland. What idiotic people are these? Everywhere you walk at the moment the buzzards are buzzing here..... hardly anything else today though, as it is quite cool and windy.....and that is why they have the advantage of course.. I will keep trying though. I also read that UTAS is doing research into Buzzards down here....will have to find which department as I am studying Enviro Sc there next year.

[bobthebeeman]

I think the person you need to be contacting at UTAS is David Hingston, he has been great in supporting the anti bumble bee cause from the midst of the enemy.
I have a personal connection to Tassie by the way, Dad was born in Sandy Bay.
Bob

[island1]

Thanks for that Bob! I have seen his name on many of the articles I have read. I have made a note of his name and will try and track him down when I get there. Sandy Bay is near Hobart isn't it? I am closer to Devonport, near the Gog Mountain Range.

[bobthebeeman]

It is a suburb of Hobart, the old house is still there, amazing how small it is and there were 9 children. Have you ever come across any aboriginal museum/records from the east coast forest areas of Tas. Abel Tasman called in and saw evidence of tree climbing with notches in the trees a very long way apart and decided that the locals must be very big. He never met them and I get the impression was probably relieved. This has been interpreted as hunting for bees, but my feeling is that it is more likely to be for possums and birds. I have contacted the current aboriginal elders but the cultural stories did not survive the slaughter. I am of course still chasing any info that could give a clue of the southern most range of the stingless bees. I have the book by Daniel Bunge and am seeking his field notes.
Sth Australia also has possible old sightings

[island1]

No I haven't, but then I haven't really been looking..... I will certainly keep my eye out now. Fascinating stuff. I think there are many unknowns in Tassie still...things to be 'refound' etc... I know the endangered plant lists are constantly being changed as they find new pockets of plants. I have only been here 5 years, so much is still very new. I can't wait to start Uni to have access to so much more info etc. Interesting about eating the possums....it is the one meat that doesn't appeal...very 'aromatic'...... must be an acquired taste...... as the weather warms (I think it will eventually....) I hope to find more insects and bees to take note of, and hopefully photograph. There is a lot of wretched plantations around here, so I try and stick to the real forests.

[JumpedAngel]

Hi all

I've been looking through some old images I took about 3 years ago down in south gippsland, this is how I imagine the western port region would have looked like when Bunce first saw it back in the 1830's. but instead of looking at the banksia flowers at the tops of the trees I was looking at the grass tree spikes down at ground level so all I got was a few of these common solitary type bees.



Around the burbs where I live I have a shade house for my native orchids which forms a natural trap that catches all sorts of things, below is one beastie I have not as yet Identified, smaller than a standard euro-trash bee. the question arises, if I am looking for a beastie the size of a mosquito (as Bunce described it) then what defines a bee? there are so many other insects which look similar

[JumpedAngel]

Getting back to the significance of tree climbing by Aboriginal people in food gathering I suppose many of us would say yeah sure, I've climbed trees and I'm not intimidated by that, however, few of us realise the extent of the practice, so if a picture paints a thousand words then consider this...