Hello from Loving Texas

[Steaphany]

Hi, I just joined after learning some details regarding Eucalyptus gunnii, the cider gum.

I'm interested in growing Eucalyptus here in Texas and been researching not only trees for wind breaks and ornamentals, but uses for the wood and the flowers being a source for honey. When I read up on the cider gum, not only should it do well with the climate I have here, I also learned that the sap can be used to make a cider and a sweet syrup similar to maple syrup.

After a quick search of google Australia, I found the web site for Australian Bushfoods magazine which had a link to this forum, so that's how I found my way here all the way from Texas. (BTW, the climate here is just like that of Tasmania and parts of Victoria.)

Now being interested in the cider gum, I'm curious if any companies produce cider gum syrup and / or cider which I could purchase to try.

I would also like to know what is the process to try my hand at home made gum cider and gum syrup once I get the trees established.

[roughbarked]

E. gunnii. CIDER GUM. Tasmania
MYRTACEAE (Myrtle family)

In the Hobart Town Almanac for 1830 we read "Specimens of that species called the cider-tree, from its extruding a quantity of saccharine liquid resembling molasses. When allowed to remain some time and to ferment, it settles into a coarse sort of wine or cider, rather intoxicating if drank to any excess."

[JumpedAngel]

Hi Steaphany and welcome to the forum

I am not aware of anyone marketing such products, If I were then I can assure you that I would have brocken my butt to try it on for size by now.

Very few of our native plants have been commercially exploited and I know that some of us locals are hesitant to allow the exploitation of our plants overseas so dont be surprised if you meet with resistance, after all look at what happened to the macadamia nut.

I only know of one farmer in East Gipsland who has planted a number of E. gunnii for the purpose of commercial production of the sap and from what I understand it will be some time before they produce a viable product.

If you want to try for yourself then there are some commercial seed sellers who may be able to help you, my favorite is http://members.iinet.net.au/~nindseed/

[Steaphany]

Thank you for the information.

First off, I had no idea that I was touching upon such a sensitive topic. My apologies to any who feel that I may be an intrusion. From my perspective, I saw this as means to get more benefits from a plant than I was initially aware of or considering. I'm not expecting a few cider gums to be a commercial venture.

In the past, I have purchased eucalypt seed through CSIRO and I have found US nurseries which offer E. gunnii, but they do not clarify if their seed is E. gunnii subsp. gunni or E. gunnii subsp. divaricata.

My motivation for eucalyptus is a bit basic, in this area of Texas, all the indigenous trees are slow growing and rarely get much above 10 meters.
Taller trees such as various species of Eucalyptus, the cider gum at 25 meters, Tasmanian blue gum at 60 meters, river red gum at 40 meters, lemon scented gum at 40 meters all offer a significantly greater height. Unlike a short tree, the shade provided is more distant from the tree's trunk which facilitates better grazing grass under the tree while providing shade for my Horses. By contrast, the live oaks that I have planted in my front yard deliver constant shade beneath them which has caused the grass that was growing under the tree to die off.

Another positive is the ability of tall trees to attenuate the wind, I'm sure Texas is known for it's tornados even in Australia. While I'm sure a gum would not fair any better to an F5 as a indigenous tree, they would provide a better wind break for the more common winds with fewer trees.

I realize I drifted from the bushfood theme, but I felt it best to explain the origins of my inquiry. It was out of pure respect for Australia and Australian culture that prompted me to learn more when I read of the uses of cider gum sap.

[roughbarked]

Hi Steaphany. Not trying to dissuade you, just hoping to provide knowledge.

I doubt anyone was suggesting that you were going to singlehandedly destroy the cider gum industry in Australia by planting a couple of trees.. There isn't as such a cider gum, cider industry. What may be notable is that fact. The Macadamia became utilised world wide because of the fact that it was instantly edible once removed from its shell. Cider from E. gunni isn't so readily available or useable. Though I'm sure you could probably swap pecans for maple syrup within your own nation, simply by growing pecans.

I assume you are in Northern Texas. There could be a reason that indigenous species don't get above 10 m and are slow growing.

Tornadoes could perhaps keep blowing taller trees away? (joke). It is true though that it is best to retain the natural environment that exists in your area. After all it has taken millions of years to evolve thus. There is a growing number of people concerned about the planting of weeds. Eucalyptus species are commonly known to seed profusely and possibly become weeds in new environs.

A few small but notable facts:
Eucalyptus species usually don't support grasses growing in their shade without supplementary watering of the grass.
Eucalypts are evergreen and do shade the ground all year. Though many Eucalypts have a more open canopy than most Quercus (Oak) species and thus may be able to allow some groundcovers to grow. The fact still remains that without supplementary watering the tree will steal the water the grasses need.

A quick survey of grass or lawn seed suppliers catalogues will inform you of shade loving grasses to sow. There are bound to be local species that are shade tolerant in summer. You could also seek out grasses of high protein levels.

Windbreaks: are best composed of ground hugging species (understorey) mixed with taller trees. A line of taller trees is only asking for trouble in strong winds.

Eucalyptus gunni may actually reach heights of 37 m. A little known aspect is that E. gunni is readily browsed by stock while in the juvenile leaf stages. This is uncommon in Eucalypt species and worthwhile noting.

You listed:
E. camaldulensis (river red gum) This tree relies upon being flooded to do well but is otherwise adaptable to many conditions, is a widespread inland Australian mainland species which indicate often unseen waterways. It is well known as a branch dropper and not a good tree to camp under.
E. globulus (Tasmanian Blue gum) This tree is not limited solely to Tasmania, is a very fast grower and prefers hilly country. A cooler climate lover.
Corymbia citriodora though closely related is not a Eucalypt. The lemon scented gum has been reclassified into the group known as Corymbia along with all the bloodwood group. This tree isn't suitable for high wind situations without the protection of other trees and understorey. The lemon scented gum is highly susceptible to frosts until it reaches a height that is well above the frosts. Native to northern Queensland it is a long way from the Tasmanian climate you were aiming at.

[JumpedAngel]

The general concern may not be so much the exploitation of the plant overseas, although I am sure there are some folk about who may be concerned, but there are other considerations also.

If you do have tornados: Eucalypts in general tend to shed there branches, more often than not this is caused by temperature changes but I think tornados may also help, many people are killed and much property is damaged here annually as a result of falling branches. We are not subject to tornados down here in the south, we do get some cyclones up north but thats not E.gunnii territory. I am aware that Melaleuca species were planted in the Everglades in a misguided attempt to 'mop up the swamp', I believe this failed because of the tornados which tore the trees apart.

Then there is the weed potential problem: E.gunni is not likely to become a weed in an arid zone, having said that, better men than I have ended up with their foot in their mouths, South Africa took on the Australian tan bark industry at the turn of the last century by taking Australian Acacia plants out and exploiting cheap labour to produce a cheaper and more accessible product, unfortuanately they've ended up with an ecological disaster the likes of which will take them at least another century to clean up. In considering E. camaldulensis (river red gum), consider that it is the most widespread Australian tree and ideally suited to an arid environment, consider also that in your circumstance it probobly has the highest weed potential.