Native potato/ Saprophytic orchids

[Thomas B]

Hey, I'm new to the forum. I was wondering if anyone had any experience growing saprophytic orchids (the ones which live entirely off fungi growing in decaying plant matter), like Gastrodia sesamoides or native potato, with a huge 15 cm beetroot like tuber, or hyacinth orchids (Dipodium). Apparently they have the largest of the orchid tubers, and can serve as a staple. Do you just put the seeds into soil infected with the same fungus as the seeding plant.

[eataust]

Might need more information ... I didn't know Australia had large edible tubers, so am v. interested! Could you supply specific latin names for examples that we can look up?

[Thomas B]

Gastrodia sesamoides (Latin Name for cinnamon bells)
Dipodium punctatum (Latin Name for hyacinth orchid)

[roughbarked]

Virtually all the tubers found on orchids lilies and yams etc in Australia are edible. Same with native fungi fruiting bodies... It is the introduced species that cause problems.

I don't want to give Latin names away as The supply already will be destroyed if there becomes a demand.. Grow them in your own garden from reputable registered orchid and lily or yam suppliers.
Please do not dig them up in the bush.

If you purchase from the native orchid suppliers etc. they will provide what you need to make them grow properly.

To tell you the truth .. if this is the direction you want to take then you should join your state orchid growing association.

[Thomas B]

Yes, I'd never consider harvesting anything but seeds or fruit from something other than my own garden (even a state forest), but I was wondering how you could grow these leafless orchids, not harvest them in the wild.

[roughbarked]

Killara..
Victoria ?

try:
http://www.rbg.vic.gov.au/__data/page/1 ... eGuide.PDF
http://www.oscov.asn.au/articles/orchroot.htm
http://www.bribieislandorchidsociety.co ... vation.htm
http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_CG.html
http://www.psv.com.au/Resource%20Guides ... plants.doc

[Thomas B]

Sydney

[roughbarked]

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=new+s ... ssociation

/

You don't need this bit unless you use firefox.. &ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

[Thomas B]

Thanks but it still has nothing on these specific orchids. They do not photosynthesise but get their energy from mycorrhizal fungi which obtain it from decaying plant matter. I was wondering if I'd grow them like mushrooms and how specific the fungi were, but the site didn't help much.

[roughbarked]

I think you may find that the term saprophyte in relation to Australian terrestrial orchids is a term possibly no longer used. However I will try to assist your quest for knowledge. However I should stress that such orchids should be left alone and the area they occur in should be protected.

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Dipodium punctatum, the Hyacinth Orchid, is an interesting plant, which occurs naturally at Yallaroo. It is a leafless terrestrial orchid and appears in large numbers in summer. One or two spikes carry up to 50 flowers in crowded heads.  The flowers are deep purplish red and are certainly hyacinth-like in appearance. The Hyacinth Orchid is saprophytic. In other words the plants derives its nourishment from dead organic material. This means that the orchid is virtually impossible to bring into cultivation. Perhaps we should ensure the survival of this species by protecting the native grasslands where this unique plant occurs.

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A saprotroph (or saprobe) is an organism that obtains its nutrients from non-living organic matter, usually dead and decaying plant or animal matter, by absorbing soluble organic compounds. Since saprotrophs consume external food sources rather than make their own food, they are considered a type of heterotroph.

Many species of fungi, bacteria, and protista are saprotrophs. Animal scavengers, such as dung beetles and vultures, are also sometimes referred to as saprotrophs, but are more commonly called saprophages. In food webs, saprotrophs generally play the role of decomposers. Saprotrophs are often eaten by consumers and therefore commonly play important roles as recyclers in ecosystem energy flow and biogeochemical cycles.

Saprophyte is an older term that is now considered obsolete. The suffix -phyte means "plant". However, there are no truly saprotrophic organisms that are embryophytes, and fungi and bacteria are no longer placed in the Plant Kingdom. Plants that were once considered saprophytes, such as non-photosynthetic orchids and monotropes, are now known to be parasites on fungi. These species are termed myco-heterotrophs.

^ source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 142AAjSOgL

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=WiI ... &ct=result

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Those orchids occupying the highest canopies of the emergent trees are xerophytic and tolerate long periods of high intensity of light that provides steady state for their growth. However between crown canopy and crown base in the understorey where rapid fluctuation of sun and shade often predominate, maximum numbers of orchids are found growing (Sciophytes).

The third category of orchids is truly shade tolerant and occupies the tree trunk or stump portions of the understorey mesophytes. The terrestrial orchids forming the fourth ecological group are differentiated in their growth on soil either as an autophyte or saphrophyte

Also..

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The fungal flora of Australia is not well characterised; Australia is estimated to have about 250,000 fungal species of which roughly 5% have been described. Knowledge of distribution, substrates and habitats is poor for most species, with the exception of common plant pathogens.

^ source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flora_of_Australia

Now a read which may be useful to you:
This one is mostly relative: http://eprints.usq.edu.au/1460/1/Dearnaley06bfinal.pdf
These not so relevant.. but useful reads.
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/fight.pdf
http://www.archive.org/stream/pharmaceu ... t_djvu.txt (do a find in the page for saprophytic)

Where you can find Gastrodia sesamoides

[Thomas B]

Thanks Roughbarked

[Michaelangelica]

Gastrodia elata is used in CTM for "calming the liver'. It is called ,i think, 'Tian' or "gift of god"
I wonder if Gastrodia sesamoides was used as a medicine in Australia?

[dippi]

I was fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to salvage some native potato while monitoring some remnant vege being destroyed for housing sub-division in mooruduc, Vic, and was told I would never grow them with out fungus. Since they were going to be dead without my intervention, I took them back to my place in werribee and planted them amongst my lilies and myrnong. I was pleasantly surprised to find them growing and then flowering about a year later. Insects gave them a hammering though. I find that sometimes you just got to give things a go. By the way there are a lot bigger indig yams around than the ones mentioned. Sorry for late response, just found this forum.

[roughbarked]

I was fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to salvage some native potato while monitoring some remnant vege being destroyed for housing sub-division in mooruduc, Vic, and was told I would never grow them with out fungus. Since they were going to be dead without my intervention, I took them back to my place in werribee and planted them amongst my lilies and myrnong. I was pleasantly surprised to find them growing and then flowering about a year later. Insects gave them a hammering though. I find that sometimes you just got to give things a go. By the way there are a lot bigger indig yams around than the ones mentioned. Sorry for late response, just found this forum.

One cannot make a mistake without first trying something new.

[cherax]

I didnt read all the stuff above from RBark.
Sapro orchids........... grow them in a hollow log that still is full of remnant rotten wood and/or detritus.
Thats where you find other saprophytic orchids species up on cape york in open woodland communities. They are apparently very difficult to grow so I believe.
good luck!
A